Hallowed Grey
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Jun 3rd, 2009 @ 6:52 pm
Joe Hardcore(Shattered Realm/Philly Legend)
Photo courtesy of Jan Urant.
Hey again man, could you just introduce yourself for the readers who might be picking this up at their first show/who may not have heard of you?
I am Joe Hardcore. I’ve been going to shows for a lil bit and I have toured in and with bands, booked shows locally in Philadelphia for over 12 years. I’ve booked US tours and helped bands with liner notes and t-shirt designs. Once a year I book THIS IS HARDCORE FEST and I occasionally write on Joehardcore.net
With everything that’s been said over the past few weeks about labels, how would you go about doing things if it were switched back round to you? Would there be a use of contracts, managers and agents or would you rely on the “hardcore handshake”?
It really goes to the level of what position and size the band I am in is. I’d love to be on a small label like YoungBlood or 1917 just because it’s such an easy situation. You’re in the band, you play shows. You sell the product which in this case is the 7” /Cdep or LP/CD and you pay back what you are sent in advanced (or “Fronted”) and that’s life. Your tours are smaller and the pay sucks and breaking even is a dream unless you’re an up and coming hype steamroller or you have the best merch out there. You never sell enough to really “get” royalties. In fact most of the deals are about always slighted to the bands side as the labels often lose these smaller bands to the next level labels like Bridge 9 or someone before they become someone that does more then breaks even. It would be a simple life and one that has balance to it. However should you start really getting to the level where your recording budget is into the thousands and you have separate distro deals for international territories then its time to sign on the line. It’s a matter of checks and balances once you start competing and earning. I don’t have time for that in my personal life now but for the younger bands on fire its something to realize. Take heed to the bands that’ve stayed with the same label and have a great working relationship. Look at the leaders of the pack to what they are doing, not to what the new kid on the block is up to. There is always a newer band signing to someone for 50,000 or some shit. It is promising in some respects but often may NOT be what your band needs or could actually benefit from. With each band having different motivations its hard to say which deal is BEST or what BEST is but ultimately to better answer the question the hardcore handshake works in the preliminary stages of a band but even in that regard you will eventually be signing something. Blacklisteds first EP was BOUGHT off of Walk Alone records (bob macc from Posi #s label) by StillBorn. And there was certainly no Contract with Walk Alone, yet it worked out for everyone. Its not always the case but that’s what makes this more of speculation then science.
What is it that grinds your gears the most about bands such as SYG using hardcore as a stepping-stone on to further things? From my point of view that band and others like them aren’t even hardcore bands to begin with, would you agree?
Since the rise of hardcore in the 80’s there has been bands that just wore the scene like an image to sell a product. You can pigeonhole so many bands with being a stepping stone band but when it gets down to it, how many bands are solely living/eating nice off of a band that at one point came from the hardcore scene. It got even worse once the metal came into the mix. The pop punk sappy 15 year old girl stuff has no real place yet its still a genre listened to and preferred by some people who believe they are hardcore kids. In that same respect the guys in the band could be in all the best hardcore bands of the time, but if they are a pop band, it is what it is and not what they want it to be. Why do bands get away with using the scene, as a stone is just a matter of something that has always happened and never was stopped? There is no moral ground to defend allowing a band that has no business on a hardcore show aside from wanting to break the mold of a typical hardcore show I suppose. I truthfully know that the reason these bands infiltrate and rise off the backs of others is the money in the hands of the promoters, labels and such that are hoping as these guys rise to take their $ where they can get it. One of SYG’s biggest supporters in that B9 board makes quite a few bucks off of having them play his shows. Although a staunch supporter of the scene and avid hardcore fan, as a promoter he would be stupid for not trying to make money off of something like that. It’s the heart of the issue at hand. Those with higher moral grounds are often standing on ethically sound ideals but are not interested in the business aspect to it. I had the ability to book them at the 1st This Is Hardcore but with a foundation that needed to be strong it was better to “suffer” without having the teenybopper ½ hour set then to start something with a message and yet allow someone to sneak by out of avarice. I am in the minority in this viewpoint but then again I can sleep at night, I am sure others can as well on nicer pillows in better places but I have a different set of aesthetic principles that wouldn’t allow for them to be welcome on a hardcore show. There are too many people in my opinion that have no ideals and no true opinion these days so I am not surprised when people ballwash these stepping stone bands in hopes of opening for them.
The Problem With Music article by Steve Albini pretty much puts everything out there for a band who are looking to being signed in regards to finances, royalties and making money. Do you think it should be made mandatory for every band to read this before putting ink to paper and signing a contract?
Well Steve’s viewpoint is one of experience and his “the Problem With Music” shows a dirty underside to something that is often the holy grail and biggest goal for many people involved in every genre of music out there. I wish it was more readily available but then again those who will find it most interesting and important were probably already on the path of enlightenment and not in need of such a document· That and the people who want the prize the most may think “It won’t happen to me” and will sign anyway.
Over here we’ve had a pretty dramatic drop in the amount of people turning out to shows. Is Philly like this at the moment, or is everything stronger than ever? Who should we be keeping our eyes and ears open for in terms of bands?
Well the thing that you have to understand is that I’ve spent a good amount of time touring and watching touring patterns. My first US tour was about 10 years ago. At the time the Bay Area (San Francisco, Berkeley, Oakland) and even Sacramento had great scenes. In fact an East Coast band that went to California were going to be paid better, sell more merch and have a blast. That lasted until about 2002 or so when everyone started talking about how great Florida and Texas were. Since then both places have seen a drop and the spots to hit are Canada (Montreal/Quebec) and Southern California. You can see a change of bands migrating to and from the “GOOD” places and towns to the next. Unless the scene is smart enough to allow for a natural growth they will accept all comers and be expended in 2 or 3 years and without the venues or such staying strong they will lose their high-ranking status. For Philadelphia, we’ve always had great shows, great turnouts. For a long time it was the fights that ruined the venues that made the venues harder to come by which meant we didn’t get all the tours. Without the fights, we’ve got the church and a few smaller spots that we don’t allow for every single touring band to come through. I may not book every band that comes through every time. But when we have the time to do them the show is awesome and they love it. It’s more important to have a great show then just to have a show. No is not something in a lot of people’s vocabulary and it allows too often for a hoard of bands to come in a short period of time and wear out the venue or the interest of the scene in the area.
What’s happened internationally is too many bands are able to come over and play shows and it’s ruining their ability to make a “splash” (sorry for the bad pun). Had they not been able to stay on the road 12 months a year like bands of 10 years ago they’d find bigger shows when they do come out. The only thing then is they would have to figure out what we did, that juggling life, bands with a job and a place to live is almost impossible. Hence the immortalized line from George Blacklisted “I put my life on a shelf when everyone else around me found happiness and wealth”. It’s a true statement. Bands that toured like Terror and Blacklisted didn’t exist in such numbers before. But the growth of the scene as a whole has allowed for a new generation to boom and some of the hot spots formerly for touring are being reduced from the new weight of the new crop of full time touring bands. But that’s a whole ‘nether thing all together…
With the amount of time and effort you’ve put into the hardcore scene throughout the years, do you have a stand out story of idiocy/comedy/being blown away by a band that you could share?
I love seeing these bands that gave away their chances to be on great respectable hardcore labels spend all this time lying about their position on a label that they’ve been left with because they wanted so much. Its great irony to see them bitch years later about the metal label that “fucked them over” versus all the other hardcore bands that came up in those years who did great with the smaller labels that weren’t good enough for the big shots. Its always interesting to see which of these bands ultimately picks the nails of their own coffin.
I am ultimately left believing that the best thing in life is redemption. To see a band like H20 try to rise out of hardcore via MCA (Music Cemetery of America) only to come back and be on Bridge 9 is great. They’re able to be a band they need to be and the kids will get a chance to see a band that may be one of the kings of the small venue shows. Maximum Penalty has come out with a new demo and has since opened for Bane at the Church for me and 2 days ago rocked the house at This Is Hardcore Fest. They’ve been a band for 20 years and they’ve still got the skills and the love for the game to start over again with a demo to get to the new audience of kids out now. And the response has been tremendous. I am very happy that there is a place for a band like Maximum Penalty in 2008 as 10 years ago they were one of my favorite bands.
Thanks for the interview.
www. Myspace. com/joehardcore
www. joehardcore. net
www. myspace. com/thisishardcorefest
